This archived forum used to be called 'Peatarian' (in reference to Ray Peat).

Does metabolic rate = thyroid ?

And if so, how exactly? What's the precise relationship?

What I mean to say is, if certain foods increase or decrease the metabolic rate is it simply that some foods tax free thyroid and increase your requirements, therefore leaving thyroid for energy generation at a deficit, leading to tiredness, poor digestion, stress, aging etc?

I started experiencing some great leaps forward by simply taking my pulse more often and finally becoming convinced that when I eat muscle meat or pufas my metabolic rate appears to decrease quite significantly (i.e. my pulse drops - 80ish is about where I have it at the moment, but it goes below 60 if my last meal was a meat meal for example, so I am cutting it out as much as possible).

I feel that my stress levels have significantly dropped, currently relying on fruit and dairy (goat or jersey milk, but cheese from anywhere) in abundance (and quite a lot of starch too, rice mostly; as I can't consume enough fruit in one go to satiate me).

I have to do further experiments with liver and gelatin, to see the effects of these, but so far, simply my relative pulse seems to be a pretty good marker of warmth, wellness, happiness, and so I wonder if my thyroid will simply be performing better meal to meal with the right changes - which obviously is the general theory of Peat eating.

What I'm getting at though is this - why are we always referring to the thyroid and thyroid hormones, when in fact metabolic rate is the less esoteric way of talking about it? Pulse, warmth, energy level, feeling of wellbeing are the signs of a good metabolic rate, and are directly evident without having to refer to markers you need blood tests for to evidence.

I think if we were focussing on eating to align the pulse with the point of symptoms of wellness, this presents an easy approach to self observation and adjustment.
asked Apr 13, 2015 by Marvel

2 Answers

"Does metabolic rate = thyroid ?"

Metabolic rate is determined by various factors and can not be simply reduced to thyroid function. Most stress hormones increase the metabolic rate. It is also unclear whether the metabolic rate increasing effects of carbohydrates is related to an increase in thyroid function. Catecholamines can go up after carbohydrate or sugar meals as well and catecholamines can increase metabolic rate too, how do you really know that all this boils down to thyroid function?

"Pulse, warmth, energy level, feeling of wellbeing are the signs of a good metabolic rate, and are directly evident without having to refer to markers you need blood tests for to evidence."

Please provide evidence for these claims. I have had times where I felt shit with perfect pulse and temps and the opposite, leading me to believe that those parameters are prone to many confounders.

"finally becoming convinced that when I eat muscle meat or pufas my metabolic rate appears to decrease quite significantly "

Such things are very susceptible to nocebo effects. I.e. if you think something is bad for you, your body will also react in that way. If you anticipate a reaction to happen in this or that direction, then you are much more likely to just look at those instances where things happened "the way you wanted them".

My advice to you would be to get a much more objective and neutral attitude (like a scientist), simply trying to chart temperatures unemotionally. Then you should make graphs with all values available and statistics and look at them objectively. I have too many times experienced that good/bad effects are greatly determined by our own perception of them (placebo/nocebo effects). Such behaviour makes it really hard to pin down what actually is good for oneself and what not.

A good experiment would be to have someone make yourself a fatty meal with tasteless PUFA-oil or tasteless coconut oil, without yourself knowing what is what, and chart your temperature and pulse before and after. Repeat that at least 3-4 times and make mean values of the changes. If you then see clear differences, then you can be much more sure about what is happening.
answered Apr 13, 2015 by Bukowski
3-4 PUFA meals!? That would ruin my extremely strict pufa depletion diet I've been working on for 2 years.
yeah - it seems *very* unnatural....but i think doing the whole charts/graphs/documentation thing is a great exercise in letting one come to their senses.  it will totally expand one's ability to perceive.
"I have had times where I felt shit with perfect pulse and temps and the opposite"

That's unfortunate. I haven't had this experience. Pulse and warmth seem to be pretty objective markers for energy and a sense of wellbeing in my self-experimentation.

"Such things are very susceptible to nocebo effects"

Thanks for your input, but without disregarding all the observations I have made of my own body over the several years of experimentation that have brought me to where I am, and leaving me with no direction and no objectivity to speak of at all, I can't really take this highly notional opinion too seriously, with due respect.

"My advice to you would be to get a much more objective and neutral attitude"

lol

"A good experiment would be to have someone make yourself a fatty meal with tasteless PUFA-oil... Repeat that at least 3-4 times"

...Yeah, no thanks.
I dont think 3-4 PUFA-meals, even if its drinking sunflower oil directly, will have any measurable long-term effects on health or anything else. I presume you are a young male and will probably burn off most of them for energy shortly thereafter.
Serious question Bukowski. Say someone is currently overeating and/or very sedentary when eating the higher PUFA meal/sunflower oil. Will the PUFA be stored long term?
Yes, if we are talking about chronic consumption over years. No if we're talking about a couple of isolated meals.

I think the extreme PUFA-fear in peatarian circles is not very rational. I.e. the theory that PUFAs need years to be completely eradicated from the body has been disputed a couple of times already, such as by Andrew Kim or haidut.
@buk Well, no, but I've had enough experience with seed oils to know how I react to them
amenamenamen.  i have basically been saying this over and over but people don't want to hear it - or i don't communicate as well as you.

 will say that pulse is not useful unless accompanied with temperature (i guess you are calling this "warmth").  i would also say that one's mood supercedes pulse and temp, despite being very important themselves.  i agree with you that it's much more accurate and useful to talk about/perceive health through metabolic rate (or even more simplified:  oxidative metabolism).  right?

also to remember:  isolated food items you are eating is not the only thing which is affecting pulse and temp.  your calories, macros, and so on also influence.  these things have to be monitored over an extended length of time to really grasp one's life.  sun exposure, activity, all these things change your pulse and temp, too.  when you perceive through the lens of wellness and function, everything takes care of itself.  when you perceive through the lens of dysfunction, things become murky, anxious, and hopeless.
answered Apr 13, 2015 by Nicholas
Yes, I am taking my temperature also, which has risen with the pulse and sense of wellbeing, but as with the pulse it should be able to go higher.

Interesting that so many people are speaking of placebo or psychological effects here. I don't want to disregard these warnings entirely as I'm sure these effects can be profound, but I am confident I am mindful enough of this already - I am certain that eating muscle meat or pufa isn't lowering my pulse etc as part of a placebo effect.
i think that if you're putting in the effort at being perceptive then there won't be placebos or nocebos.  but i think both are very real.
also - have you looked into the muscle meat dropping pulse for maybe these reasons:  not balanced with enough glycine, carbs, or calcium?  I can only do muscle meats mid-day and always balanced with double the amount of carbs and with milk.  otherwise it also drops my pulse.
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