This archived forum used to be called 'Peatarian' (in reference to Ray Peat).

Electron density explains why coconut oil fixed Ray Peat?

I've wondered for years why there isn't more discussion in these groups about coconut oil.  When I first started exploring Peat's ideas I used it because duh, he said he used it and it made this huge difference for him.  He essentially says he had 10 lbs he couldn't shake despite being PUFA free for years and also (probably) using thyroid.  If he was so healthy, why did he get such a big boost from it?

I might have found one of the reasons in this Jack Kruse EMF article.  He says weight gain and diseases like osteoporosis are due to losing electrons.  It's because of physics.  He argues that fats boost health more than carbs, which would explain why Peath had lingering health issues till he started using coconut oil:

"Food is not that important, but its electron density of food is quite important in disease reversals and this is why fats are way better than carbs 100% of the time. It is also why Dr. Oz has been unknowingly harming American viewers with incorrect advice and why Oprah is still fat. Fats are more electron dense than proteins, and carbohydrates are the least electron dense foods on this planet. That includes the good ones or the safe ones."

"Non Geeks Ultimate Truth Bomb: When your SCN time perception slows down, because you lose electrons at your mitochondria for any reason, you get fatter and older no matter what you eat!!! If you eat electron dense foods constantly, the rate of change is slower."

Peat on coconut oil:

"Although I had stopped using the unsaturated seed oils years ago, and supposed that I wasn't heavily saturated with toxic unsaturated fat, when I first used coconut oil I saw an immediate response, that convinced me my metabolism was chronically inhibited by something that was easily alleviated by "dilution" or molecular competition. I had put a tablespoonful of coconut oil on some rice I had for supper, and half an hour later while I was reading, I noticed I was breathing more deeply than normal. I saw that my skin was pink, and I found that my pulse was faster than normal--about 98, I think. After an hour or two, my pulse and breathing returned to normal. Every day for a couple of weeks I noticed the same response while I was digesting a small amount of coconut oil, but gradually it didn't happen any more, and I increased my daily consumption of the oil to about an ounce. I kept eating the same foods as before (including a quart of ice cream every day), except that I added about 200 or 250 calories per day as coconut oil. Apparently the metabolic surges that happened at first were an indication that my body was compensating for an anti-thyroid substance by producing more thyroid hormone; when the coconut oil relieved the inhibition, I experienced a moment of slight hyperthyroidism, but after a time the inhibitor became less effective, and my body adjusted by producing slightly less thyroid hormone. But over the next few months, I saw that my weight was slowly and consistently decreasing. It had been steady at 185 pounds for 25 years, but over a period of six months it dropped to about 175 pounds. I found that eating more coconut oil lowered my weight another few pounds, and eating less caused it to increase."
asked Apr 3, 2015 by raintree
No offence but dont talk about electrons, their "density", highly oxidized state etc, if you dont know what you are talking about.
You are making a fool out of yourself.
It's called an alternate viewpoint/opinion.  You might consider learning to tolerate it.
Another interesting concept talked about by JK is that the earth is a source for electrons along side food. It is kind of bizarre that humans are the only species that are not connected to the earth 90 percent of the time. All other animals sleep, walk, crawl, swim, ect... while touching the earth in some way. Humans wear rubber shoes and sleep in a house insulated and not connected to the earth.

I dont know how much diffrence it makes but is interesting to note.
"In medicine, I was taught calories matter all of the time in foods. Yet here, using Einstein’s math, I found they were not because the equation for energy generation required a constant source of electrons not calories! I think this is why Gary Taubes and obesity researchers do not understand obesity. Mr. Taubes was correct in that carbs were a problem, but for the wrong reasons. Carbs are not ideal because they are electron poor in density."

"In fact, the free electrons from the Earth were designed by Nature to be delivered 100% of the time because E = MC2. We needed massive amounts of electrons to keep our mitochondria humming every second of every day to stay alive. When they stop, we die. Electrons from food could never sustain that kind of flow 100% of the time we were alive."

There is some serious science going on there :'D
He says his theory explains why the Kitivans and other indigenous peoples were able to eat carbs and not get fat.  Food isn't the central issue and this explains why!
There is not serious science going on there. Nothing Jack Kruse says is real science. He spews scientific sounding nonsense.
I guess you didn't get my sarcasm ;)
I think a middle schooler would get the huntch that his science is fake. But the concepts like circadian rhythm and emf's effects on cells is just interesting to think about. I don't think jack came up with any of the concepts he talks about either. He just shops around for diffrent ideas he can tie together into A biger one.
"There is not serious science going on there. Nothing Jack Kruse says is real science. He spews scientific sounding nonsense."

Jack Kruse is a theoretical bio physicist.  Face it, biology is dead.  Even Peat says the reason the world is the way it is today is because people didn't absorb the science from the last 100 years.  Oh well.  You can either keep up or be left behind.
How insulting to physicists that you'd call Jack Kruse a physicist. He doesn't understand even basic physics. His entire philosphy revolves around a laughable, childlike understanding of Einstein's E=MC^2. Unless we're splitting atoms, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with any of this. E=MC^2 is a way of calculating the energy contained within a particle.

3 Answers

Peat's idea, derived from Warburg, Szent-Györgyi and Ling, is that the body should ideally be in a highly oxidized state, with as few free electrons as possible.*

By analogy, you can think of redox flow batteries that can be charged by sunlight and quinones.

The body is something like that, figuratively speaking. When the redox balance of the body is "charged," as in a healthy fetus, you have optimal health, flawless immunity, and perfect regeneration of tissue -- in effect, the potential for immortality, if that "charged" state can be maintained.

*This is entirely different from what Kruse is saying.
answered Apr 3, 2015 by visionofstrength
Yes, I assumed that.

How does that make sense in light of his own experience?

I think Kruse says cells should alternate between oxidized and reduced states, cyclically.
The levels of saturated fat in the adipose tissue, and of free fatty acids in the plasma and other tissue, can be improved by having a little coconut oil, and these levels in turn can increase the body's own production of thyroid and carbon dioxide -- which, in turn, fully "charges" the body (figuratively speaking).
"If he was so healthy, why did he get such a big boost from it?"

Because he still had 2% or 3% or some number of fats being PUFAs -which happens probably to everybody who doesn't eat a laboratory diet-, and thus could benefit from things that mitigate the damage of PUFAs.
answered Apr 3, 2015 by Anon
First of all, if the *problem* with carbohydrates is that they aren't as electron dense as fats, this can be amended by simply eating more of them. Boom, more electrons. Comparing fats and carbohydrates as singular molecules is silly because people can eat greater quantities of carbohydrates (by weight) than fat before they gain weight.

Anyway, I don't see how supplying electrons from coconut oil specifically would ultimately produce the effects Peat describes (maybe in other contexts I suppose). But JK seems to be saying electron loss from the hypothalamus causes weight gain by inducing hunger, so I would say his (I would argue questionable) theory doesn't explain Peat's experience, because Ray claims he *increased* his calorie intake, rather than decreased it.
answered Apr 4, 2015 by mscott