This archived forum used to be called 'Peatarian' (in reference to Ray Peat).

TMD / TMJ (Temporomandibular joint dysfunction)

Short story:

Does anyone know of an effective treatment for TMD (Temporomandibular joint dysfunction)?


Long story:

For a few months now I've been having issues with my jaw and teeth. I have a slight pain in my upper left jaw when I open my mouth wide, and the jaw makes a slight popping noise occasionally.

The worst part though, is that my teeth have become misaligned for some reason, and my "bite" is not symmetric anymore. When I bite down, the teeth on the right side of the mouth meet, but a space remains between the upper and lower teeth on the left side of the mouth.

My 2 upper front teeth have also "shifted" their position, so they are protruding more outwards, I almost look like a rabbit.

Talking to my dentist and looking online, the recommended 'solution' to this is surgery or dental work.

However I've noticed that when I eat certain irritating foods, and my bowels are under 'stress', the misplacement of the teeth becomes worse (they physically move!). So just with this in mind, I'm thinking that there may be some inflammatory cause that keeping the teeth misaligned. Interestingly, when I first noticed the shifting of my teeth several months ago, it was also during a period of diarrhea (and general stress)

With this in mind, I'm convinced there has to be a 'natural' treatment for this disorder. Also interesting is that RP talks about how DHEA made some of his impacted teeth shift into normal position.

I've tried typical RP things like T3, aspirin, vitamins, progesterone without much help.

Anyone who has dealt with this, or knows of possible solutions to this "disorder"?

asked Dec 22, 2014 by freshness

Hello, I am and have been dealing with the exact same thing.

Theory 1:

You are grinding your teeth at night due to stress, and this is causing your teeth to shift in order to avoid the excess pressure (or rather, they are shifting due to the pressure).

The solution to that is to buy some sort of night guard, or even a simple retainer could work (it did for me). Fix the stress so that the grinding stops, and then put your teeth back into place with invisalign or something.

As far as what is causing the stress to make you grind, it is probably dietary as you suspect.

I used to grind when I was on a strict peat diet, but since I have loosened up, it has gone away (added starch, veggies, red meat, swapped milk for cheese).

Do you have ear ringing too? That might show up soon.

Also, you may be grinding for another reason: if one of your teeth is keeping your bite from meeting properly, your body will grind at night to try and wear that tooth down.

Go check out your bite very carefully in the mirror.

Let me know what you think about everything I said.

I've gotten myself to the point where I can chew again on my left side and I don't grind, but I haven't gotten invisalign yet. My right side doesn't meet at all so I will have to fix it soon.

Also here is another thread on this very site. Maybe some info here can help you

http://peatarian.com/16007/anyone-suffer-from-tmj-d

It has to do with common everyday stress.. fix it and you are good to go
had the EXACT same thing.

I do not grind my teeth at night. Also I already have a type of night guard (which is also a retainer) but it barely fits anymore, since my teeth have moved so much that it's really tight when I put it on my upper teeth.

My bite doesn't meet properly: my teeth on the right side of the mouth meet when I bite down, but most of the ones on the left side do not. Even the ones that do touch don't do it symmetrically.

I think they shifted due to a "stress" response. I was taking some probably bad supplements at the time my teeth initially shifted, which also caused some diarrhea, so either the supplements directly or indirectly (by causing diarrhea, digestive inflammation or mineral imbalances) caused the shifting.

Yes I have ringing in the ears. It's worst on the side where the teeth misalignment is worst.

EliminateTheJuice how long have you had this problem? Are you sure you grind your teeth at night?

Alex how long did you have it for until it went away? did it go away suddenly or how long did it take?

Funny how we have the same problems .. Have had mild tinitus as a side effect to the constant pressure on the jaw. My face was becoming more and more asymetrical.
Never put your focus on fixing TMJ it will only increase the stress . So obsessing about how long it will take and so forth is only gonna make your situation worse.

I can help you by saying there is no way the supplements fucked your jaw. The TMJ is happening on larger scale . Its the accumulated effect of a chronic flight and fight response.

My tinnitus/tmj started around late 2012. It was at its worst sometime last year.

I used to grind my teeth at night, and I am 100% positive, because I used to wake up with a sore jaw and I even chipped my tooth a little. I also used to dream that all my teeth cracked and fell out.

I think it is stress related of course, but I don't know if it can be just from 'everyday stress' as I find that phrase too vague.

For me it was definitely something dietary because I don't grind/clench anymore.

I'm not even sure how teeth could shift without some sort of physical pressure.. is it possible? Maybe excess calcium can cause this?

I unfortunately didn't have the time to read all the above responses, so I apologize in advance if this was already mentioned, but I would look into a cranio-mandibular specializing/cognizant dentist.

Check out this site: http://tmjcalifornia.com/

Also, despite what people say about Dave Asprey: https://www.bulletproofexec.com/dr-dwight-jennings-tmj-jaw-pain-substance-p-179/ (the guy in this interview is the same DDS as above)

Check the resources in the above podcast, there are two foundations that train dentists in cranio-mandibular techniques. I actually found a few near my home, and will be seeing one soon, so I can make a post about it afterwards.

dude that is awesome. thanks for the info/link. gonna read into it tomorrow

also wtf, does everyone on peatarian have tmj? there must be some underlying dietary stressor if so

Yeah, perhaps there is. I'm not sure, but I'm not particularly of the opinion that refined juices, sucrose, cola, etc. are the way to go, even if one includes fruit, liver, eggs, and so forth in their diet.

I know that based off of Dr. Barnes and others' work, thyroid hormone administration had profound effects on facial structure, dental health, gum lining, posture, and more, and Dr. Peat has alluded to having his teeth move around after using hormones. So, there is definitely a hormonal-dietary impact (further supported by W.A.Price's work on facial symmetry and dental arches in indigenous cultures).

Anyhow, briefly skimming some of the above comments makes me believe that many would benefit from a well reviewed, experienced cranio-mandiublar specialist. Tinnitus, headaches - both tension and migraine - grinding, and more can be helped by this modality. There is some evidence that it can actually increase regional cerebral blood flow and BDNF, thus improving cognition. Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt has sent some of his autistic children patients to these kind of DDS's and most get very large benefits in terms of behavior and sensory processing. A potential side-benefit is a seemingly more attractive, symmetrical face with proper jaw and teeth alignment, alongside better breathing. I hear the process can be long, though.

Yeah it might be a hormonal thing. In which case it would be a positive thing leading to a negative after effect.

I've been reading the links you sent, and listening to the podcast as well. Really great info here. I'll see if I can find a dentist familiar with this stuff in my area.

To the extent that I've been faithful to Mike Mew's recommendations (http://peatarian.com/41899/jaw-correction-dr-mike-mew) I've seen good results. Thanks to Phedre for recommending mastic.

Yes, the skull/teeth can definitely move and adapt.

Good results where? The only proven results were on kids, not on adults.

Kids have the benefit of a higher metabolism and softer tissues. The idea that the bones 'fuse' is now known to be false. People doing NCR have changed their entire face non-surgically. Mew himself reports changes in himself and the nurses at his practice.

Mew is just orthodontics, a procedure certainly done on adults, via muscle and correcting posture to let the airway function, arches open and maxilla move to an optimum space.

1 Answer

Update:

I'm still struggling with shifting teeth and teeth misalignment issues.

Some weeks, it seems the teeth do better, and align themselves in position, and have equal "height".

Other weeks, it just seems to get worse, and they shift position. During some periods, I even feel like the teeth are "coming out of their roots", some more than others, so when I bite down, only a few teeth are touching (on upper and lower jaw).

Teeth are definitely moving - some times towards a normal, symmetric, position - other times, to an abnormal, asymmetric, crooked position.

I still haven't found the factors which are most important. But it's gotta be something nutritional.

Any advice for supplements that could help with this?

answered Feb 25, 2015 by freshness

Do you ever find your self mouth breathing? I practice Mike Mew's tongue/jaw posture and chew hard gum a couple hrs a day.

@freshness, your exact problem sounds quite unfamiliar to me. That said, it's worth ruling out that it's not a neck or shoulder problem that's the root of your TMJ. These parts are all connected and you have to be careful not to treat them in isolation.

I have some sort of TMJ disorder at the moment, and have had it for several years now. It's not particularly painful, but feels like I have something constantly stuck in the area just below my ear. And it definitely gets worse when I'm in a stressful situation, notably when I'm bored, seated for long periods of time, sleep-deprived or anxious.

In addition to having mild scoliosis, I spent a lot of time hunched over a guitar when I was younger, and have had a number of desk-based office jobs where I rarely (if ever) had cause to raise my arms above my shoulders.
While I eat a pretty clean diet, I find that doing yoga, neck/shoulder/arm stretches, chin-ups and pull-ups, meditation and trying to stay engaged in productive or enjoyable activities have helped.

I realise that your problem and personal situation might be very different, but I hope this info helps a bit. I just recommend exploring these things before going down the supplement rabbit hole.

@Karl What type of hard gum do you use?

Mastic Gum from Amazon. One 100 gram box will last quite a while.

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