This archived forum used to be called 'Peatarian' (in reference to Ray Peat).

Allergenicity [update]


[update 25.02.2015]

Thought I should write an update for anyone struggling with similar problems:

Completely fixed the allergenicity / skin problems by eating 1 oyster per day and a small piece of liver 2-3 times per week.

I still believe excessive ejaculation is detrimental to a man's health.
1-2 times per month seems to be my personal sweet spot for clear skin and best energy, motivation and confidence. Having sex without ejaculation seems to have a positive or at worst a neutral impact. Ejaculation is the problem. Still not really sure why, also not sure about "dry orgasms". There's a lot of info on the subject in the taoist philosophies though.


So I have been experimenting with this a lot the last few months and would like to share some of my findings and could also use some help putting it all together.

Certain foods are allergenic for me:
-dairy
-honey
-chocolate
-citrus fruit
-white potatoes
-bananas
-dates

Pretty much all of the allergenic foods have a certain "allergenicity threshold" up to which I can eat them without any problems. Once I cross that line the food starts to become allergenic.
I get a red , irritated face a few hours after eating it. If I keep eating the offending food now I will develop acne after a few days.
At that point all of the other foods on my list above start to become highly allergenic too, even in small amounts that did not cause any trouble before.
If I cut all of them out of my diet for a few days/weeks things will calm down and I can slowly start to introduce them again in small amounts without any symptoms.
Once I eat to much of one of them they all start to become highly allergenic again and I have to start all over...

I do not want to cut all of them out of my diet permanently.

I am currently experimenting with the amounts I can eat of each food before it starts to become allergenic.

I found that not ejaculating while eating 1-2 oysters a day helps tremendously with allergenicity of foods. Doesn't have anything to do with nofap or noporn or not having sex... It's ejaculation, no matter if during sex or masturbation, that will worsen allergenicity of all foods for me.
If I'm at a level where I will get random erections during the day like a horny teenager (usually after 3-4 weeks of no orgasm), my tolerance for all foods greatly increases.

Why is that? Is it really just the zinc or maybe more? Would "dry orgasms" have the same benefits since I don't ejaculate?
Anyone with some experience in that area here?

Also why does eating a certain food in an amount that is greater than it's "allergenicity threshold" put my body in a state where everything becomes highly allergenic all of a sudden?
Stress hormones?
Overstimulated immune system?
Irritated/inflamed gut?
Would eating these potentially allergenic foods in a quantity where they don't cause any symptoms still be unhealthy in the long run?

Ány input here would be greatly appreciated

asked Dec 8, 2014 by skally
edited Feb 25, 2015 by skally

That's interesting because these foods seems to be the less allergenic( excluding maybe citrus fruits and some chocolate)

3 Answers

your description fits with high histamine levels.
you can get a histamine blood test to check (at least you can where i live).

an analogy sometimes used, is to think of a bucket say half full of histamine,
as long as the histamine does not overflow the bucket, all is good.
if all is working ideally the histamine level is controlled & will not overflow.

if high histamine is your issue, then in your example, some of the foods you are eating are slowly raising your histamine levels faster then the histamine is being broken down, & eventually the bucket overflows, & your symptoms appear.
& if you stop eating the problematic foods, eventually the bucket will stop overflowing & the level will fall.

Your mention of Zinc is also interesting/relevant, google for more info, here a two related studies;
Physiological concentrations of zinc inhibit the release of histamine from human basophils and lung mast cells

Beneficial effect of zinc supplementation on pruritus in hemodialysis patients with special reference to changes in serum histamine levels

caution: if you research this, you may find mention of supplementing with the amino acid methionine to reduce histamine levels. probably more of a last resort thing imo. if you experiment this, monitor yourself very closely for any effects, taking methionine could take from 'under methylation' to 'over methylation'.

answered Dec 8, 2014 by daz
edited Dec 8, 2014 by daz

Thanks that actually does make sense.
I assume high calorie intake / raised metabolism while not eating to much of the offending foods is my best chance of improving the sensitivity to these foods?
I went from taking a handful of supplements twice a day to not taking anything right now, I would like to keep it that way to be honest.

I think dewitt was talking about gelatin (something around 100g a day) and lowered histamine at some point but I can't find it anymore.

Regarding the effects of orgasm/ejaculation:

I doubt that the loss of zinc or other minerals in the semen has very significant biological effects. This study found between 3.81 and 6.29 μmol zinc per ejaculate in a small cohort of men. Converting moles to grams shows that there was between 0.249 mg and 0.411 mg zinc per ejaculate, with the larger number corresponding to a greater dietary zinc intake.

That said, the spike in prolactin following orgasm is pretty substantial [1, 2] and there might also be some effects related to the modulation of oxytocin and vasopressin. Orgasm/ejaculation definitely has a profound biological effect - I just don't think it has much to do with mineral loss in the semen.

answered Dec 9, 2014 by Kasra

Yes, that's why I'm still confused about the whole zinc thing.

But since just abstaining from orgasm/ejaculation doesn't have the same benefits for me if I don't eat oysters daily, it seems that there is some kind of connection.

Spermatogenesis is going on pretty much 24/7, the sperms are constantly renewed.
Couldn't it be possible that this process alone uses up substantial amounts of minerals that can't be measured in the semen later?
I mean it's not just some white goo, you're creating potential new life here.

Not very scientific, I know, but Taoists consider "An ounce of semen to be equal in value to sixty ounces of blood" and recommend ejaculation no more than twice a month (if you're healthy).(again, that's not some kind of celibacy thing, they actually encourage sex and intimacy. just don't cum...)

Or maybe the recovery process from hormonal changes after orgasm uses up some minerals. But then the famous tantric "dry orgasm" would still produce that same hormonal change and be considered "harmful".

Well, you could try swallowing your semen then.

Yea or just suck a bunch of dicks...

No but seriously, swallowing semen would give you the very small amount of minerals that kasra mentioned above.
Wouldn't work

It was a reference to the statement "An ounce of semen to be equal in value to sixty ounces of blood".

On a more serious note, I think ejaculating can definitely have the potential to result in problems, or rather increase them. Personally it (problems from ejaculation) correlates with a few other things, such as less hunger (sometimes more 'unhealthy' hunger), cold extremities, wanting to sleep a lot, overall just being in a lower energy state. In this general pattern ejaculating makes it even worse and I'd feel even more exhausted and life-unaffirming. But when I'm feeling good and energetic overall (like I mostly do), how many times I ejaculate doesn't make a difference at all, even multiple times doesn't really affect my mood/energy level and so on at all. Can you relate to these experiences a bit or is it really only the 'allergenic' symptoms causing you problems?

No, I can definitely relate.
A few years back when I was still a lot healthier than now I could orgasm daily without any problems.
Right now I just feel drained and depressed for days/weeks if I do it.

I found a really nice quote on the forum here:

Anyone doing the nofap?

"My rule of thumb is if I'm not getting strong spontaneous erections regularly than my prolactin, dopamine, serotonin, testosterone, estrogen, and metabolism in general are not in a healthy place to be ejaculating just for the heck of it.

I figure it's a bad idea to put more stress on the body if it's already dealing with a less than ideal hormonal profile if your goal is a high metabolism.

But if the libido is raging and erections are happening easily out of nowhere than I figure all systems are up and running with a surplus of energy ready to be used on sexuality without drawing away resources from the basic repair and rebuild functions of the body.

But even if your sexual function is perfect I think there might still be benefits to less frequent ejaculation.

As for porn I think it's best to go through a short phase where you satisfy your curiosity and then for the rest of your life watch it very infrequently, if at all ever again. There's just too many other worthwhile things to be doing and spending your endorphins on, like real intimacy."
-Brian

ejaculation is the worst thing for my body sometimes. and ejaculation is totally fine with my body sometimes. i agree. just as we can become disconnected with food cravings, we can become disconnected with sexual cravings. there's probably a better way of describing that but i'm tired. oysters, clams, and mussels seem to give me sexual energy more than abstinence, strangely.

[update 25.02.2015]

Thought I should write an update for anyone struggling with similar problems:

Completely fixed the allergenicity / skin problems by eating 1 oyster per day and a small piece of liver 2-3 times per week.

I still believe excessive ejaculation is detrimental to a man's health.
1-2 times per month seems to be my personal sweet spot for clear skin and best energy, motivation and confidence. Having sex without ejaculation seems to have a positive or at worst a neutral impact. Ejaculation is the problem. Still not really sure why, also not sure about "dry orgasms". There's a lot of info on the subject in the taoist philosophies though.

answered Feb 25, 2015 by skally
edited Feb 25, 2015 by skally

Interesting. Have you tried either the oyster OR the liver and see which one it helps?

Also how does one eat just one oyster per day? Canned?

Agree with you on orgasms, makes me really lethargic, stuffy nose etc.

Yeah I tried just oysters or just liver. I also tried replacing them with a vit a and a zinc supplement.
Both didn't really work unfortunately.

Eating oysters and liver both on a regular basis is where the magic happens (at least for me)

I usually buy a dozen live oysters at a time, put them in little individual plastic bags and stick them in the freezer (alive and still in the shell).
I make some type of fish/seafood soup every night for dinner and just shuck one of the frozen oysters and throw it in there.
I would probably eat a lot more if they weren't so damn expensive where I live...

i haven't experimented with an oyster a day....but i have found that i feel best eating some kind of shellfish daily. but definitely oysters at least once a week...

do you guys who notice worse effects from ejaculation have a history of "overusage" in the past? wondering if you have some kind of amount and once you pass that threshhold it's all downhill from there.

interesting on the liver, will need to experiment. canned oysters i dont feel have the same effect, i can eat a whole can of them and not really get any improved anything.

I masturbated pretty much every day all my youth up until about 1 year ago. Masturbation was a daily habit, just like brushing my teeth. I'm 23 right now. So definitely "overusage" for me, yes.

A lot of the anti masturbation websites seem to think that ejaculation without watching porn or while having sex is somehow ok and not harmful.
From my experience ejaculation is always a stressor for the male body.

Now I ejaculate 1-2 times per month which is just enough to keep me from having wet dreams and getting random boners in public.

Lots of great information on the subject if you read up on taoist philosophies. They basically think that abstaining from ejaculation promotes longevity. Sex (without a condom) is also extremely beneficial. Something with exchange of hormones between male and female during intercourse, yin and yang balancing themselves out and all that.

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