This archived forum used to be called 'Peatarian' (in reference to Ray Peat). It was closed because of the behavior of Danny Roddy and his posse.

switching from NDT back to cynomel/cynoplus combo due to allergy- help

So I contacted Peat wondering why my temp. is so low while my pulse remains very high in the 100s on NDT. His simple answer is that it's probably due to having some allergy to the excipients.

When I was on cynomel/cynoplus my temp. reached high 97s' and pulse consistent in the 90 range, although I would feel a drop off on some days.Although I did feel like passing out from heat while at work in the kitchen or walking during the summer on pure cynomel alone.

So I'm thinking of going back to a combination of the two.

Since I'm currently taking 1/8th of NDT twice per day, would a 1/4th of cynoplus and an 1/8th of cynomel be near an equivalent to take twice per day?

Thanks, I really have trouble finding the right dosing as I know it's not just the mcgs. but how some feel given a certain ratio.

asked Oct 26, 2013 by kringlecold

If you switch doses too much it will be confusing. Staying on a dose for at least two months will give you a good idea of its effects.

I stayed on with 1 /16 for little over a month before upping to two 1/8ths and have encountered those "features". I'm getting freezing cold as well now.

interesting

You should be able to look up the brand of your NDT and find out how many mg of T3 and T4 is in it, and then figure out what would be the corresponding Cynoplus amount. I can't see how it would be a problem if you switch but in the same amounts of T3 and T4 you're already on.

I can't convert the NDT to cynoplus as the amount I'm taking twice per day of the former is equivalent to 1.03875 t3 to 4.375 t4. The cynoplus and cynomel only comes in that high amount so I'd have to moleculize them and extract the atoms to reach an equivalent dose.

I feel like shit and have another shit day of work to go through. I'm just going to take a few grains and have a heart attack. This is so frustrating.
My doctor is going to pull me in on the 30ths and spend a day telling me I'm an idiot.

I can't change my diet because I can't afford anything but milk,coffee,OJ,oysters,sugar, and liver on min. wage.

I'm also becoming irritable.

I'm not following you. And sorry I meant mcg not mg.
What brand of NDT is it? The amounts should come up if you google it. One grain of Erfa for example has 35 mcg of T4 and 8 mcg of T3.
Cynoplus has 120mcg of T4 and 30mcg of T3.

(Actually based on that Cynoplus is 3 grains not 2 like people have been saying here... weird. Maybe that's why people are freaking out... they are taking more than the one grain recommended to start with.)

The NDT is thiroyd:http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands/
I cut into 1/8ths and take it twice per day. So that above, doubled, is the equivalent I take in mcgs as I take that twice per day.

3 Answers

Kringlecold, you need more food, eat more meat, rice, potatoes, fish, whatever. Second, start with 1/4 of Cynoplus daily and keep it like that for a month, that's a typical starting does with Cynoplus.

answered Oct 26, 2013 by Nemesis

even going by feeling would probably be better than limiting it to milk and orange juice. You don't need to eat oysters, if they are too expensive. It also may be too much fluids for someone who is hypo.

Many people here have attacked me, but it is very sad to see that people are willing to go over a cliff following Ray Peat's idea of a good diet. Peat himself has said that hypothyroid people cannot handle a lot of liquids.

Rice and potatoes are cheaper than milk and juice. Chicken breasts and canned fish are not expensive. Even fresh fish can be inexpensive depending on the type. Eggs are cheap too. If you cut back on some of the milk and juice and add some rice, meat, fish etc it may make a big difference and you may not need to switch thyroid supplements. Drastically reducing liquids really worked for me.

Drinking only OJ and milk is just not enough food and nutrients for a human being. Peat himself often mentions " TEMPORARILY avoiding less digestible food" to resolve some hormonal/digestive issues. No one should strive on OJ/fruit+ milk alone, that kind of approach to a diet is really taking things out of a context and not understanding what it's all about.

I've never been a big fan of OJ myself. It's too low in calories and micronutrients to be a good addition to the diet. And it doesn't seem to be particulary well digested either, possibly because of its high acidity or the fiber that has a very high surface area. You could very well drink it instead of water, to quench your thirst with something that has at least some nutrients - but I wouldn't use it as a main source of calories and nutrients. Denser whole fruits and potatoes seem like a much better idea. Even the refined gluten-containing grains can be fine if you don't have any digestive issues and get enough minerals and vitamins from elsewhere. Instead of loads if liquid milk, it's quite easy to have some cheese and meat. Altough I wouldn't eat too much of both, simply because of the high protein content. Carbohydrates and fat are more important, while an excess of protein can easily increase the secretion of the pituitary hormones, cortisol and estrogen (only in women) while decreasing testosterone (both in women and men). Altough in women, it increases progesterone as well.

I'm not attacking you islandgirl, I like your ideas. I just presume I have some issue with gut bacteria as all these sever issues began after an overdose of aspirin which I feel caused a lot of accumulated endotoxin to somehow release serotonin as during the first few weeks I felt like I was dying, my adrenaline was super high and carrot salad really helped. So I don't want to add any starch in, so for a while I was drinking 3 qts. of milk per day to no good results. Although while doing so I also switched from raw milk to store milk, and raw was the only milk I could handle before.

I just contacted ray peat and he said I should probably get off thiroyd as the excipients may be causing my problems of high pulse low temp.
I never mentioned that my pulse like dies with how low it gets at night, like I have to reach further up my arm just to find it as if not enough fluid is going through the hose to keep it taut.

Anyway, I'll try to figure this all out someway, I'm definitely switching to cynoplus tomorrow. Damn thailand crap.

While some forms of starch can increase endotoxin exposure, cause intestinal irritation and increase serotonin levels, not all do. Some starches are absorbed so fast that they don't even reach the large intestines. On the other hand, there are fruits that are absorbed much less efficient and can indeed cause the same problems that some starches do.

Not to be a be a bother but could you give some common examples? Should simple white potatoes, corn in the form of tortillas, etc. be fine?

Also, a big question, I'm getting off thiroyd tomorrow, will just switching to a 1/4 of cynoplus cause me harm? I am noticing my dry hands are getting less dry and less stiff as time goes on but this high pulse, low temp. thing is really a bother.

The less fiber it contains and the higher the surface area is (i.e. the finer it is ground), the faster it is absorbed. For example, flour is faster absorbed than pasta; refined wheat is faster absorbed than whole wheat and so on. White bread seems to absorb particulary fast/early, altough the gluten may cause problems in some (but I don't think gluten is inherently toxic). But isolated starch absorbs even faster. Potatoes and corn can cause problems because of their fiber content, though (limited) research shows that resistant starch may actually protect against endotoxin.

Switching to cynoplus should not cause you any problems. In fact, I've heard from a lot of people that they do much better on cynoplus than on NDT. It seems like the dosage in NDT is not consistent. And because thyroid hormones are somewhat unstable, the manufacturing processes can destroy or damage some of them.

NDT is not a brand.

One NDT brand can be wildly different from another.

answered Oct 26, 2013 by Anon

I'm in the US aka a third world country when it comes to poor folk and proper healthcare so I need to fix myself without counting on any doctor. Although I've tried to seek their advice, none have provided much help, the current one at least provides an ear to talk to.

I've took an 1/8th of cynomel and a quarter of cynoplus today. So far pulse is still in 100s and temp. is still low.

answered Oct 27, 2013 by kringlecold

Potatoes well cooked with butter and salt , and masa harina should be fine.White bread too if you do not have problem with gluten.

Why are you taking both Cynoplus and Cynomel? RP advises a 4:1 ratio of T4 to T3.

I initially took just the 1/8th of cynomel but felt trouble breathing so I took the cynoplus.
I'm thinking tomorrow I'll take just the cynoplus alone and see how that works.

I'm eating potatoes, I have gluten intolerance unfortunately so I'll be avoiding breads.

Yeah, I'm thinking just the tiny amounts of Cynoplus might be easier for you to tolerate. From what I'm reading here I think it's the T3 that people seem to have a problem with.

I have no knowledge on how I should go about upping the cynoplus. Should I do the same as with the NDT and add about a 1/4 per day every few months?
Thanks.
So far I'm still feeling very cold to the point of chattering teeth-though it's nearing winter and I've had that issue since I was about 10 or younger- although the rash and dry skin on my hands is finally starting to go away.
Ray mentioned that in hypothyroidism, harsh chemicals like the ones I encounter at work are more likely to aggravate the skin, so as it goes away it could mean I'm becoming less hypo.
Pulse is still high as shit but at least my temp is rising, though it could be just from the cortisol response from adding starch back in.

Hi Kringle, I'm just looking at the thyroid section in this Danny Roddy article, have you seen it? http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/29/ray-peats-brain-building-a-foundation-for-better-understandi.html I think RP addresses some of your issues about the temperature and dosing.

I think I would stay on the same schedule - ie. increase it every 6-8 weeks max. 1/4 sounds like a good amount to increase with.

Thanks.
I think I read that before but may have forgotten some things. I'll look into it.
Thanks again.

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